Schwalbe, MAXXIS, Continental, Pirelli, Michelin, WTB, Kenda and Co. – the variety of mountain bike tires is vast – and often overwhelming. We tested over 50 MTB tire models for you – and stopped short of naming a clear winner. Instead, we’ll tell you how to find the optimal tire for you and your bike.

In this comparison test, we neither pick a clear test winner nor make a specific purchase recommendation. That’s because a variety of factors have a strong influence on the performance of MTB tires. For good reason, manufacturers offer a wide range of models and different variants – tailored to different rider types and skill levels, bikes and trail conditions. Riders who primarily shuttle their enduro bikes uphill have entirely different demands on their tires than those who take the same bike into the Alps and earn every descent through their own effort. Even if our editorial team could agree on a specific model, it would only represent the best possible compromise for the most versatile use cases. In short: the perfect tire, one that suits all riders equally, simply doesn’t exist! Instead, we aim to explain what you need to pay attention to in the future, what differences exist, and what you can achieve with certain adjustments – for example, running different air pressures or tire casings. We also explain the different philosophies of the manufacturers and their – at times very confusing – product ranges so you can make the perfect choice for your tires going forward.

We spent months testing all relevant tread patterns, rubber compounds and casings from all well-known manufacturers. To ensure this test remains clear and easy to navigate, we’ve divided it into three parts. In the first part, you’ll find everything you need to know about tires in general. The second part explains the four most important factors to consider when choosing a tire. In the final part, we’ll tell you how to find the tires that suit you best. And following that, we’ll give you an overview of all well-known manufacturers.

Table of content

  1. The Theory – What You Need to Know About MTB Tires
  2. The Four Most Important Factors When Choosing Tires
  3. How to Find the Right Tire
Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 5229

The Theory – What You Need to Know About MTB Tires

Tubeless is the way to go – or is it?

The advantages of tubeless-mounted tires are obvious: less weight, more traction, lower rolling resistance, and improved puncture protection. Even though installation can be a bit of a hassle (but doesn’t have to be!), almost all modern MTB tires and rims are designed for tubeless use. In case you’re still riding with inner-tubes, we’ve prepared a detailed tubeless installation guide for you – along with a strong recommendation to finally make the switch. We exclusively ride tubeless ourselves and tested all tires without inner-tubes.
Recently, however, there’s also a trend toward using TPU tubes, which are significantly lighter and slightly more robust than conventional butyl tubes. We usually only carry TPU tubes as a backup puncture kit, since they’re smaller and lighter than regular tubes, and we still strongly recommend a tubeless setup.

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 4677

At more than 2.5 bar of tire pressure, the loss of grip is immense!

If you’ve never heard of tubeless before, check out our comprehensive MTB tubeless guide. There, we explain everything you need to know about a tubeless setup!

Air pressure is crucial

The correct tire pressure is essential: Too much air and you can say goodbye to comfort and traction. Too little and you’ll get vague, spongy handling and an increased risk of damage. The right pressure is highly individual and depends on countless factors such as tire casing, rubber compound, and trail conditions. We recommend checking the pressure with a digital gauge before every ride and playing around with pressures – the time and effort are well worth it! You’ll find a separate guide here on how to determine the perfect tire pressure.

Tire width ≠ tire width

How wide is too wide and how narrow is too narrow? In principle, the tire width must match the rim width. A wider tire has a larger contact area and can therefore generate more traction. The increased volume also improves puncture protection and comfort. However, with tires wider than 2.6”, aggressive riders often experience negative effects in corners: The handling becomes vague and imprecise, making it hard to hold tight lines. In berms, wider tires fold more quickly and suddenly. Both the rim and the tread significantly influence the actual width of a tire. That’s because measurements are always taken at the widest point – the outer edge of the side knobs. As a result, the stated tire widths from different manufacturers aren’t directly comparable, and a 2.5” tire from MAXXIS may be wider or narrower than a 2.5” tire from SCHWALBE, Continental, or other manufacturers.

Weight

You shouldn’t underestimate the weight of your tires: A tire set alone, without tubeless sealant and such, adds about 2.5 kg to the total system weight of your bike. While that’s roughly equivalent to a full hydration bladder, tire weight has a much more noticeable impact on riding performance. For one thing, the tires are part of the rotating mass that you have to accelerate and decelerate with every pedal stroke and braking maneuver. For another, tires act as a suspension element – even before your fork – absorbing impacts and significantly influencing the performance of your suspension. That said, heavy tires can also improve ride quality: When things get rowdy, heavy tires make it easier to hold your line through rock gardens and root carpets, adding stability to your ride. They also deflect less from small lateral impacts. The line between “too heavy” and “too light” is thin, but generally, it’s worth adding a bit of weight to gain performance and grip – and to protect your rims and spare tubes.

Robust and stable tires are heavy – but they offer clear advantages on the descent. To save on overall weight, many bike manufacturers still resort to undersized OEM tires – what a pity!

Front tire ≠ Rear tire

Front and rear wheels are subjected to different loads and demands. When it comes to MTB tires, the goal is to generate as much grip as possible at the front, while at the rear you have to strike a balance between traction and rolling resistance. There are also major differences when it comes to puncture protection,as the rear wheel is often subjected to much higher forces. Looking at the numbers, most punctures happen at the rear wheel. This means that you have a lot of freedom in terms of tread pattern, casing, and rubber compound. Use it!

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 6111 600x400 Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 5535 600x400

Yes, tires are expensive!

Even if you’re not riding new tires every day like the pros, tires as wear parts will keep punching holes in your travel budget. The fact is: A high-quality tire is relatively expensive but also has a massive impact on the riding performance on the trail – and can be the difference between frustration and fun on your holiday. After all, who wants to waste time patching up tires while their buddies stand by laughing and cracking jokes about your tiny pump? You should think of your tires as an upgrade, not just a consumable. It’s far more worthwhile to invest in quality tires than in carbon spacers and custom paint jobs.

What’s the deal with tire inserts?

Tire inserts are now a dime a dozen, and the price range for these systems is huge. The basic principle behind most of them is the same: A foam insert acts as a buffer between the rim and the tire under heavy impacts. This cushions the blow, so the tire either doesn’t hit the rim at all or does so far more gently, reducing the risk of damage. However, very few systems can prevent other problems like burping. We’ve already tested many common tire inserts both on the trail and in the lab for our tire insert comparison test. In the end, though, we were always most impressed by tires with a more robust casing. Why? Because the weight difference between a tire with an insert and a tire with the next tougher casing is often marginal. On top of that, tires with reinforced casings are significantly more durable, less prone to holes and tears, and don’t fold as easily in corners – meaning that you’re getting three advantages for the price of one. So the rule is: Only consider a tire insert if you’re still having issues even with the sturdiest casing available.

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 5663 600x400 Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 5283 600x400

Intended use isn’t set in stone

Even if a tire was designed specifically for the front or rear, it can still be used on the other wheel. A Minion DHR II (Downhill Rear II) also performs extremely well as a front tire and offers a slightly narrower alternative to the bulkier Minion DHF. Likewise, Michelin’s Wild Enduro front tire generates more traction at the rear in muddy conditions than the rear-specific variant.

Beyond that, you also have full freedom regarding the tire’s intended use: A “mud tire” can also work brilliantly on bone-dry, dusty trails in the peak of summer. Tire manufacturers provide a rough overview of what the tire is suitable for – but this is not set in stone: You decide!

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 4783

How did we test so many tires?

All good things take time: No other test at ENDURO took as long or involved as many testers as our tire comparison test. Every editor in our team was involved. Over the past two years, we’ve tested close to 200 bikes. That means 400 tires, on which we logged countless kilometers across an equally diverse array of trails. This gives us a vast reservoir of experience when it comes to evaluating tires. We continue to “ride in” the characteristics of the most common models in all their variations with every ride on our test bikes.

Experience, evaluations, and test laps are one thing,but what really matters is: How do the tires stack up against each other in a direct comparison? During our back-to-back sessions at our familiar Bikepark Kronplatz and on our home trails, our tubeless pump was running at full throttle. Arm pump from tire swaps – yep, we had that, too! But only by riding across a wide range of trails and conditions can we truly assess the differences between tires. For our test at Kronplatz in South Tyrol, all testers rode the Pivot Firebird and the same HUNT Trail Wide MTB aluminum wheelset to ensure consistent conditions: same bike model, same wheels, different tires. On our home trails, however, we used various bikes and wheels made of carbon and aluminum in different widths to cover the widest possible range.

Which tires have side knobs that fold too easily, and which remain controlled near the breakaway point without requiring ground contact? Which tire has the best self-cleaning qualities, and which one won’t let you down under braking? How do the different casings affect ride behavior, and what influence do rebound and damping characteristics of the casing have on grip and control?

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 1483
Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 1476 600x400 Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 1501 600x400

In addition, we were able to use Schwalbe’s renowned laboratory for several days to test all tires under standardized conditions. Here, we didn’t just weigh and measure all the models, but also ran tests for rolling resistance, impact protection, and puncture susceptibility to back up our trail impressions. On top of that, our editorial intern – who fortunately comes from a cross-country background – spent several days pedaling up various mountain passes and gravel roads. This allowed us to verify the rolling resistance values from the lab in real-world conditions using GPS tracking and power meter pedals – because that’s where it really counts.

The Kronplatz bike park as a test location

For our back-to-back test, as mentioned above, we headed to the Kronplatz bike park, a place we know like the back of our hand. The park offers a wild mix of trails – from large jump lines with massive berms and heavy compressions to steep, technical, and tight sections. In addition, you can rack up over 1,000 vertical meters of trail descent in one go and then quickly return to the top via a fast gondola. The park’s soil was also an important factor for us, as it changes very little under extremely dry or wet conditions, providing consistently reliable test conditions. For accommodation, we stayed at the newly opened Brondstott Farm & Suites, which not only offers ample space for mountain bikes but is also within sight of the gondola station – making it the perfect base for our test.

Brondstott WEB 4953 600x400 Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 4748 600x400

Puncture Protection Test Overview

Laboratory Impact Test: A 19 kg steel wedge is positioned on the tire’s tread (between the knobs), lifted to a defined height, and then dropped. This procedure is repeated with increasing drop height until the tire, inflated to 1.5 bar, sustains damage. The tire is then patched and the test repeated at a position offset by half a wheel rotation. The final result is the average of the maximum drop height (in mm) from both trials that the tire withstands without failure. The average result across all tested tires was 465.3 mm.

Laboratory Puncture Test: To determine puncture resistance, a test probe is pressed into the tire with steadily increasing force until it breaks through. The maximum average force required for penetration is then recorded in newtons (N). The test is conducted using a blunt, 1.5 mm object and a 5 mm chisel on the tread, with the 5 mm chisel also used on the tire’s sidewall. Three punctures are conducted, each performed three times at different positions. The average of the peak penetration forces is calculated across all runs. The test is conducted without air pressure, which means the tire’s real-world deformation under real-world conditions isn’t represented.

To visualize the results, we created one chart per manufacturer that shows all tires included in the comparison test. For our “puncture protection score,” we combined the results from the impact and puncture tests. To determine the overall result, the impact test was given a weight of 60%, while the puncture test accounted for 40%. Within the puncture test, punctures using the 5 mm chisel were weighted twice as heavily as those with the 1.5 mm object, since the latter rarely occurs on trails and is usually sealed effectively by tubeless sealant.

Rolling Resistance Test Overview

Laboratory Rolling Resistance Measurement: Each tire is mounted on a 30 mm wide test rim, inflated to 1.5 bar, and subjected to a wheel load of 50 kg while rolling on a steel drum. The power required in watts to maintain a speed of 20 km/h is measured. The more power needed, the harder the tire rolls. The average result across the test field was 44.3 watts.

END 064 VT Grafen Intro Rollingresistance Lab Measurement INT

Real-World Rolling Resistance Measurement: For this test, we mounted selected tires on our Pivot Trailcat LT with standardized rims and conducted test rides on both tarmac and gravel. Like in the lab, all tires were inflated to 1.5 bar, and only the rear tire was changed. Using power meter pedals, we rode a selected uphill segment at a constant output of 250 watts and recorded the time needed to complete it.

END 064 VT Grafen Rollwiederstand GER13

If you’re keen to learn more about our lab tests and want some deeper insights, be sure to check out our bonus article with that special nerdy touch.

The Four Most Important Factors When Choosing Tires

Whether you’re gearing up for a trans-Alp adventure, racing downhill next weekend, or heading out for a weeklong bike holiday with your crew – if you’re in the market for new rubber, there are four key factors to keep in mind when narrowing down the “perfect” tire for your intended use.

The Right Casing

The casing is the backbone of any tire and is one of the most important factors to consider when choosing the right model. It gives the tire its shape and significantly influences damping, cornering stability, and puncture protection. It also affects rolling resistance and, most notably, the weight of the tire. However, casing choice shouldn’t be based primarily on weight, but rather according to your own weight, riding style, and the trails you ride.

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 5958 600x400 Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 1478 600x400

The more robust the casing, the lower the air pressure you can run without risking pinch flats on every edge or folding the tire in corners. Lower pressure adds extra damping, which in turn ensures more traction and saves energy because smaller vibrations don’t reach your hands. The greater rotating mass provides added stability at high speeds but does cost agility on the trail and power on the climbs. On the upside, a more robust casing also offers better rim protection, potentially saving you from costly damage – especially with pricey carbon rims.

In our comparison test, the different characteristics of the casings stood out dramatically. More flexible casings, like Schwalbe’s radial casing or Michelin’s relatively soft casing flex more readily and offer extra grip on uneven terrain, such as roots, by molding themselves around the obstacle. Stiffer casings, like those from Continental and Specialized, are more predictable and generate grip more through the tread and rubber compound, but they can feel less secure. In the worst case – especially in slippery conditions – they can cause a pinball effect, bouncing you from root to root. Whether you like that or not is a matter of preference. If you’re unsure, opt for the more stable casing that can be ridden at lower pressures: it reduces the risk of destroying your new tire within the first ten meters, and beginners benefit from the added grip and damping.

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 5069

The Right Rubber Compound

Tire manufacturers guard the secrets of their rubber compounds like McDonald’s guard their Big Mac sauce recipe. And for good reason: while nearly all mountain bike compounds offer adequate grip in dry conditions, wet terrain exposes significant reveals huge performance differences. Manufacturers are constantly juggling the trade-offs between grip, rolling resistance, and durability. That’s why most tires now use up to three different compounds rather than just one.

The structure is generally similar: in a triple compound, the hardest rubber is placed beneath the tread to provide stability. The softest compound is used for the side knobs – they only come into contact with the ground when cornering and greatly enhance grip once the bike is leaned over. The center knobs use a blend of soft and hard compounds to reduce rolling resistance and increase durability. As if that weren’t complicated enough, manufacturers also offer differently tuned triple compounds. WTB, for example, keep it simple with names like High Grip and Fast Rolling. We usually run the grippiest compound up front and a harder compound at the rear to reduce rolling resistance. Tires with just one or two compounds are usually a bit cheaper and a good budget-friendly option for the rear wheel. Make sure the compounds are proportionate and not too far apart from each other. If there’s too much difference – for example, loads of front grip but little rear grip – your bike can feel unbalanced in corners.

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 6182 600x400 Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 6135 600x400

The Right Tread Pattern

The tread is the defining characteristic of every tire and has a huge impact on the bike’s riding behavior. When it comes to knobs, we broadly distinguish between three types: center knobs affect rolling and braking; side knobs provide support in corners; transition knobs, which are placed between the center and side knobs on some tires, make the profile feel more rounded and increase traction in corners at shallower lean angles.

There are countless variations when it comes to spacing, shape, and size of the knobs. When choosing the right tread pattern, your primary consideration should be the terrain you ride most often. For soft, wet ground, go for an “open” tread with big knobs and wide spacing, which prevents mud from clogging the gaps and allows the knobs to dig deep into the ground. If you need a tire that rolls well and resists folding on hardpack and in berms, go for a more “closed” tread pattern.

The Right Dimensions

Kids’ bikes or wagon wheels – one thing is clear: you can’t ignore the correct rim diameter. But when we say “dimensions,” we mostly mean the appropriate tire width – it should match your rim and your riding style. A wide, high-volume tire has better damping characteristics helping to absorb vibrations and reduce trail chatter. Opting for a wider version of the same tire model boosts both traction and protection against pinch flats.However, as width increases, precision decreases. If the tire isn’t well supported by a sufficiently-wide rim, it can squirm in corners. Most tires between 2.4” and 2.6” pair well with rims that have an internal width of around 30 mm. If your rim is narrower than 25 mm, you shouldn’t go wider than 2.4”. At MAXXIS, some models are labeled WT – this tread is specifically designed for rims with 35 mm width, but also works well on 30 mm rims. Below that, however, you should avoid WT tires altogether.

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 6149

How to Find the Right Tire

The best starting point for finding the right tire or front/rear combination is your current setup. Now it’s time for troubleshooting! Analyze your trail behavior and recall your past punctures. We’ve got a few tips on how to get rid of your tire problems:

Pinch Flats

Pinch flats are the tubeless equivalent of a snakebite in a tube. When the tire gets pinched between a rock and the rim – for example, when landing hard – the rim usually punctures the tire in two places: one right at the rim and one between the center and side knobs. If you’re getting frequent pinch flats despite running high pressures, the casing is too weak for your weight, riding style, or trails. As a temporary fix, increasing air pressure often helps. Long-term, you should switch to a more robust casing (e.g. Super Gravity instead of Super Trail at Schwalbe, or Doubledown instead of the EXO+ version at MAXXIS).

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 5824 600x400 Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 5312 600x400

Too Little Speed on Level Ground

Want to go faster downhill or gain an edge on the climbs? If your tires have too much rolling resistance, the issue lies with the tread, casing, and rubber compound. Our lab test clearly showed that the rubber compound has the greatest impact on rolling resistance. A harder compound rolls faster than a soft one – simple as that. Tread has a much smaller influence – at least as long as you’re not using extremely short or long knobs. Compare a MAXXIS DISSECTOR with a Minion DHR II – both in the same compound and casing – and the difference in drag at the rear is only around 4 watts. But switching the same tire model from MaxxTerra to the softer MaxxGrip compound results in a difference of nearly 15 watts.

The casing, its deformation characteristics, and tire pressure also have a considerable effect on rolling resistance. When climbing, roughly 80% of rolling resistance comes from the rear tire, since it carries the majority of the rider’s weight. So don’t be afraid to run aggressive treads and soft compounds up front – focus on the rear tire if you’re looking to go faster. For example, the aggressive MAXXIS HighRoller 3 rolls better in the lab than a MAXXIS ASSEGAI with the same casing and compound.

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 5108

Burping

In grippy corners and especially in berms, massive lateral forces act on the tire, causing the bead to shift on the rim. This can create a small gap between tire and rim, through which air escapes loudly – this is known as “burping.” Aside from losing pressure, you’ll often spot tubeless sealant residue or a visible “X” on the tire sidewall. Smaller burps are common on berm-heavy tracks. Often, slightly increasing tire pressure helps. But if burping becomes a recurring issue or you’ve even had a tire pop off the rim, you’re better off upgrading to a stronger casing. If problems persist, the root cause might be an incompatible tire/rim combo. Especially with wide tires on very narrow rims, the tire lacks proper sidewall support.

Great Grip in the Dry, Slippery When Wet!

As soon as it rains, the demands on your tires change instantly on the very same trail. It’s clear that wet roots and rocks offer less grip than dry terrain. But you don’t have to accept loss of grip as a given. Check your tread pattern in the wet and see how much it clogs with mud. If the pattern fills up so much that you can barely see the knobs, it’s time for an open tread with large block spacing. Good examples include Schwalbe’s Magic Mary, MAXXIS’ HighRoller 3, or the Argotal from Continental.

In wet conditions, the right rubber compound really makes a difference. Only a truly soft compound can still generate adequate grip on wet roots. Try using a very soft compound up front and a medium one at the rear during the wet winter months. This way you’ll reduce the risk of front-end washouts while still keeping up with your buddies on the climbs.

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 5490 600x400 Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 1518 600x400

Slashed Sidewalls

If you ride lots on rocky trails, the sidewall of your tire can get slashed pretty quickly. One of the most common causes is using a rim that’s too-wide or a tire that’s too narrow. If your side knobs aren’t the widest part of your tire, the sidewall is exposed to sharp rocks – not just the protruding ones. In this case, switch to a wider tire. The casing also plays a major role in cut resistance.

The abbreviation TPI – often mentioned in relation to casings – stands for Threads Per Inch, indicating the number of threads per inch in the tire’s casing. A higher TPI count means finer, lighter, and more supple fabric, resulting in better rolling behavior and more flexibility – but often at the cost of puncture protection. Lower TPI tires use thicker threads, which makes them more robust but heavier and less compliant. These are usually found in burly downhill casings.

Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 4721 600x400 Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 1493 600x400
Best MTB Tire Test 2025 ENDURO WEB 5012

There’s no single tire that fits everyone. But for everyone, there is a tire that fits.

Editors’ choice: The Tires We Ride

Beste Trail Bike 2024 END 058 WEB 2 Res 3 600x400
Peter Walker
All-weather rider and bike park fan
98 kg
Front: MAXXIS HighRoller 3 MaxxGrip Doubledown
Rear: MAXXIS Minion DHR II MaxxTerra DH
Lars Engmann Team Portraits 1586 WEB 1 600x400
Lars Engmann
Touring enthusiast focused on efficiency 77 kg
– Front: Specialized Butcher T9 GRID Trail
– Rear: Specialized Eliminator T7/T9 GRID Gravity
TQ Trek Canyon Travel Story END 064 WEB 0913 600x400
Lea Walcher
Enduro racer and adventure lover 69 kg
– Front: Schwalbe Magic Mary ADDIX Ultra Soft Gravity Pro Radial
– Rear: Schwalbe Tacky Chan ADDIX Soft Super Gravity
Best E MTB Grouptest 2025 ebike comparison test 9599 1 600x400
Benedikt Schmidt
eMTB enthusiast 80 kg
– Front: Michelin Wild Enduro (Front) Competition Line Magi-X2
– Rear: Michelin Wild Enduro (Rear) Racing Line Gum-X 3D
Intro Best Trail Bike Test END 063 WEB 2559 600x400
Felix Rauch
MTB guide and budget-conscious rider 80 kg
– Front: VEE Tires Snap WCE MK2 Full 40 GXE
– Rear: VEE Tires Attack FSX Full 40 GXE

All the models in test

If you’ve gotten this far: congratulations! Now you’re an expert on tires. Over the following pages, we’ll give you an overview of the different tires in our big group test. We tested every profile, rubber compound and casing to let you find the best option to suit your needs.


Did you enjoy this article? If so, we would be stoked if you decide to support us with a monthly contribution. By becoming a supporter of ENDURO, you will help secure a sustainable future for high-quality mountain bike journalism. Click here to learn more.

Words: Peter Walker Photos: Peter Walker

About the author

Peter Walker

As editor-in-chief, Peter is as much a man of action as he is of words. This expert, screw-driver-flexing two wheeled-whizz has many envy-inducing characteristics, including a background in motocross, several EWS race plates to his name, and more than 150 recorded days at Whistler Bike Park. However complex the bike and however steep the trail, he’s probably already nailed it, twice. Oh, and he can do it all on skinny tyres too. When it comes to guiding consumers, Peter cut his teeth at Vancouver’s oldest bike shop and now puts pen to paper on the daily translating this know-how into our editorial plan. When not tearing up Stuttgart’s local trails while testing bikes, he loves nothing more than loading up his self-renovated VW T5 and hitting the road. The fact that he’s a trained paramedic gives his colleagues reassurance out on the trails. So far we haven’t had to call him by his alias ‘Sani Peter’, so here’s hoping he keeps it right side up for the rest of his time here!